Studio Visit with Joe A. Oakes

Originally recorded June 30, 2022.

George Irwin of Western Gallery visits with Joe A. Oakes, whose work centers on painting and who is based in Riverside, California, for a wide-ranging conversation about the artist’s work, process, and studio practice.

Transcript note: Speaker labels were assigned from the source audio where available and dialogue context otherwise. Paragraph breaks were added for readability, and verbal filler was lightly edited. Joint labels mark rapid or overlapping exchanges. This was prepared from an automated transcription, so minor transcription errors may remain.

Instagram Live studio visit—June 30, 2022

Watch the original video on Instagram (43:08)

Participants: George Irwin and Joe A. Oakes

George Irwin: Hello, internet, Instagram people. How's it going? George Irwin here with Western Gallery doing our final studio visit for New Western Talent this year. I guess this is... I don't mean for this to be like a closing really but you know those are last studio visits and the show has been awesome so I hope that you've enjoyed it this year, I know I really have. Today we're gonna be visiting Joe A. Oakes in nearby Riverside, California and Joe's studio there and we're going to talk to him about his work and see where he works and maybe get a closer look at some of these pieces. He like everybody else has three works in New Western Talent. Make sure you go take a look at western.gallery. This This is the last day, so go check them out. Go see the whole exhibition today before it comes down tonight. And I'll get Joe on here now and see if we can start talking. Let's see.

George Irwin: Beep-bop, boop-boop-boop-bup. Ha. Demetrios. Ha! Hey Joe, how are you doing? I'm doing great. How about you? I'm doin' alright. I'm dong pretty good today. Just enjoying this break from the, it was 100 and seemed like 105 for two weeks in Texas. Now it's back down to the 90s so that's nice. Yeah. How are things out where you are?

Joe A. Oakes: It's pretty warm. It's been close to a hundred. But it's a little bit cooler today, but you know, warm enough to keep the air on. Otherwise it's almost impossible to paint.

George Irwin: Oh yeah. Well that's good. Um, yeah, you know that's interesting to talk about kind of the, uh, you know, the warmth and the heat out where you are too because I feel like there is so much of that in your work. I don't know if it's necessarily the temperature, but your palette and your choices for you know your highlights and shadows are so bright and warm. Is that based on just kind of what you see around you? Or I was going to ease into this I think but we just went straight there. You have an amazing, you have an Amazing Palette in like, and point of view. And so how does that come to be? Like is this a visual translation in your mind or what's going on?

Joe A. Oakes: I think it is. And I think I had a few influences early on but I think one of the major points for me is to actually really take the time to look at things. And instead of taking my,

George Irwin: what most people's first assumption about a color is,

Joe A. Oakes: you know that especially shadows, you know, people will assume it's some kind of a neutral tone. It's a gray or you know there's just a darker version of something else. And instead doing that looking at it see what kind of other colors you can see in there and how that would work with the other colors using in your palette. That's one of the things, and then there are a couple other things like being influenced by color from other cultures and just being the kind person that really likes warm colors. Sure. And I did live in the Palm Springs area

George Irwin: which is not too far from here and so it's even hotter than what we are here

Joe A. Oakes: and maybe that had some effect on it but for me when in the desert you're being scorched by the heat and the sun all the time, and believe it or not it actually takes the color out of things. You just see everything as this, you know, just blur of white light. I actually used to find it very interesting when we did have overcast days, you really get more of an idea of the actual colors of

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: things when it's overcast, you known? They're not getting blasted by the sun.

George Irwin: Yeah that's a good point. I'm thinking about especially like, I'm also showing Whitney Gardner's Death Valley collection right now, and there is a lot in there that's got the high-key light in the bright light of the desert. But yeah, when you get... I guess she also has somewhere where the sun is more towards the sunset or whatever and things start to kind of brighten up a little bit. That's interesting. So you paint a lot of sunsets and sunrises. Is that like, is it just the preference for the richness of the colors in those moments or in the drama?

Joe A. Oakes: Yes. Yeah. It's about the drama. I mean, you know, it's, I mean there's a lot that can be said about a nice calm day and you know just a very peaceful scene but I prefer the drama, I guess. And you know it just became an easy way to take the colors that I felt and what I appreciated and just turn it into that. And I guess really early on I've just found out that hey I can take any picture that I've taken and just turned it into a sunrise or a sunset. And if you really focus on those kind of things, if you really look... I guess sunset I prefer more because the sunrise is kind of like this soft kind of pushing you into the days. Whereas, you know everything changes at sunset. You know trees that are green have an orange cast to them and you get all these when you have clouds you get these great colors in the sky and the clouds and you know grassy fields that are like

Joe A. Oakes: you know our dead grass they're just alive with that color so I appreciate all of that stuff and that's what I'm trying to get to in my work,

George Irwin: where would I want people to see?

Joe A. Oakes: Think more about that stuff because our brains are supercomputers and our brain is always giving us a quick easy answer. If I ask somebody what color this field is, they'll say brown or they'll tan or those and I'll say no, I see this in there and there's this in their And they're like, I don't know what you're looking at. But if you look at it from a sunset standpoint, you realize that all of that stuff does happen. And it's very brief. You have to be open to it. It's like a second or two.

George Irwin: So do you go out and photograph then during golden hour moment?

Joe A. Oakes: And bring that back to the studio and work on it? I don't really. Yeah, it's well you know my the way I rationalize that is I say Well if I'm going to go out there at that time of day and stand out there and wait for that moment I might as well be a photographer then right? And just capture the moment so you know wherever I find things interesting. I'm out there. And I take as many pictures as I in and wander, and then think about where the sun is and what the composition looks like. And then I'll just push everything to the colors that I use and any of the images

George Irwin: that I've taken. Gotcha, yeah interesting. Cool so then you have, I mean these your landscapes are very compelling. I love your signature palette and I think what I said like in the Instagram post earlier like you can just see one of these and you know it's a Joe, a hoax painting and it's that's awesome. It's great, that's a fantastic thing to have.

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: I do appreciate that because I get that a lot so yeah. Yeah um I'm curious about okay so

George Irwin: you're not working like from specific like reference that you're seeking out for a specific piece are these landscapes imagined? Are they how can you take us through sort of the process of creating, for example like one of the ones in New Western town like Pure Bliss or The Right Path. Like what was a process like for one of those?

Joe A. Oakes: Yeah so it's actually really each painting is kind of different and I would say like for example, pure bliss is mostly made up. So okay, I was walking the dogs my dog and there was a sunset like that and I didn't have my phone with me. And you know, I burned it into my memory. And, you know I did it and I did a sketch of it

George Irwin: when I got home. And then but where I walk the dogs,

Joe A. Oakes: there's really you can't really see the mountains from there and

George Irwin: There's a lot of rooftops and things. And so I thought well, let me what can I?

Joe A. Oakes: You know use To put you know to put this together. So mountains are always a thing for me and I you know, I have Yeah, no shortage of Reference photos of mountains. So sure, you know I just painted them and then I think I had some pictures or I had gone out recently take pictures And I took a lot of pictures on open fields and things like that, and so it just kind of

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: Came together. Okay, I think I don't even know remember the names with my own things. Okay

George Irwin: Yeah, you got the right path and then just around the bend where the other though the right

Joe A. Oakes: The right path kind of is probably closest to the reference material. It's pretty close to what I saw out there that day.

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: And then the last one is just around the bend.

Joe A. Oakes: Yeah, it was around the... The mountains were pretty similar to that. I added the clouds and then the foreground was a challenge because it didn't, from where I took the picture, I was kind of up higher too. And so I didn't have a real foreground in my original. So I thought with that one for a little while.

George Irwin: Which happens, I think, for all artists know you do something and you call it done and then you look at it later, and you go, that's it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think you solved that actually really well. That foreground feels really nice and really brings you in a good way in that one. So good job with that. That is so wild. I love... so I think that most landscape painters that I've worked with mostly work on reference from real locations, or I mean obviously from real location but mostly are like making more faithful compositions from their reference to depict kind of a real location and the idea that yours are combination of that and then like collage and maybe mental collage and then like, kind of just imagination. That's really fun. I love that. So you work all, pretty much all in acrylic? Pretty much. And did you study painting at Cal State?

Joe A. Oakes: Actually, I have a bachelor's at fine art but my concentration was graphic design. Okay, cool. And so the, I really am a drawer. That's all I've ever been. Even from a kid, you know when I started at five, it was always drawing. Not a whole lot of painting, some but always drawing and even when I was in college, you know, when you have your classes

George Irwin: where you could just pick what you wanna do,

Joe A. Oakes: I didn't really take any painting classes. I took drawing classes. I actually had for a little while hoped that I could become an animator for a lot. So, I took animation classes and things like that. And it gave me a good foundation for understanding elements of art.

George Irwin: But when I decided that I was going to be a painter,

Joe A. Oakes: that's when I realized how lacking I was in my actual painting skills. So it was a lot of work at the beginning.

George Irwin: Yeah, so then, so did you, how did you approach that? Then did you take classes? Did you just do a lot trial and error? Because I know now you actually teach workshops and private lessons and more. Is that kind of like a way that you got into learning the medium or were you more just experimental?

Joe A. Oakes: In the beginning, I did take a couple of workshops with different people that kind've gotten me going in the direction I wanted to go. And not a whole lot, just a few different people. I talked with a lot of people And then I just started doing, you know, just doing, doing painting as much as I could. And probably like well it was two, maybe two years and maybe four years into it. I said, Well, I'm going to teach, I am going to try teaching because I feel like all of this stuff that I'm trying to learn myself and make it part of a routine, a painting. I think it will help if I teach others that. Because it'll make me better. And I think you did. Those first, I want to say, I think it was about three years, the first three years that I taught painting was like one of the biggest life lessons I learned, not just about art. I learned about

Joe A. Oakes: myself. I learn about people. I mean it was just a crazy thing and so I love teaching but I try teaching kids that's not... It doesn't work out as well.

George Irwin: You know some people some people love doing that and other people find that to be really challenging So yeah. Well, that's really cool Joe. I think that you know people it's so true like when you teach something that you just have to learn it so much better yourself and you end up internalizing those lessons. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, Kerry K was saying like just paint and keep painting is this comment here. And that's the other side of it too. And that all part of the practice in becoming subconsciously confident in what you're doing. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, let's see. Yeah, so I was okay. So would you mind showing us around your studio?

Joe A. Oakes: Yeah, no problem.

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: Also it looks like you've got a nice space there.

Joe A. Oakes: It's pretty good yeah. Got all the light in here and so this is what the way the house is designed. This was like the formal living room.

George Irwin: Oh okay.

Joe A. Oakes: So three windows in here. And I'm gonna get behind here and just work sure if I can kind of move it around and

George Irwin: I think. Yeah that's great.

Joe A. Oakes: Let me see.

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: So this wall, let's see.

George Irwin: Oh yeah, got a lot of nice natural light there. And so...

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: Those are the pieces in the show.

Joe A. Oakes: And then if you... So this is the biggest wall here where I kind of just try to get a look at what I'm

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: working on and this corner has everything that's, I don't know.

George Irwin: That's...

Joe A. Oakes: Everything. Supplies corner. not done, partly done. Some watercolors down there. We've got this big window and then I

George Irwin: call this the supply hut over here. There you go. Can you see it? Yes. These are all

Joe A. Oakes: All the supplies that I never use.

George Irwin: All the other things. And it's this, and there are more paintings here. Can't really, yeah.

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: I don't know if you can, am I going too fast?

George Irwin: No, that's fine. So where is your, do you work then, oh is this your easel over here on the right or the left, I don't know you might be flipped around. Can you hear me? Yes. Oh can you hear

Joe A. Oakes: me? Yeah he sounded really low for a second there.

George Irwin: Oh sorry about that. Where am i at here? I don t want to stick my big notes in there. Okay we're looking at your easel that's good. This is my easel. Oh cool got another one in the works there.

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: Is that where you work pretty much? So this is what I'm working on now.

Joe A. Oakes: Okay. And I have my table here, let's see.

George Irwin: So those are the supplies that you do? Yeah so I work

Joe A. Oakes: mix here, I've got a light here too and got some lights over here. I've gotten my easel here so I've come back to the window to the light. So I think that one of the interesting things about painting this way is that there's so much light in here all the time, that if you just hang one of these paintings on the wall, you really don't get the full effect of it unless you get some kind of light on it.

George Irwin: Yeah. Cool. Do you always work over there on the easel or do you move the painting around and try it on the walls? Barely. Let's see here. There we go. Let's see here. There you go. Sorry Joe, so do you work over there on Easel or do you move around? Do you do one to the time? I think maybe we're having a connection issue now. Oh wait, there he is.

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: Like that? Yes, can you hear me?

George Irwin: I hear you. Okay, cool. Do you do so? I know a lot of most oil painters are working on several pieces at a time because all the drying time. Do you do kind of like one and done or do you work on several pieces as well?

Joe A. Oakes: No, I'm always I'm always working out it's like could be three could be five

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: And gotcha. Can you see me? Yes. Oh, yeah. Like it for some reason I get I did something and I can't see myself on there so

Joe A. Oakes: oh well. Yeah, that's good. So I the way I paint is I like to get so far in a painting and then and then take a break and work on something else. And I always recommend that people to have, if you don't have a studio, to have some kind of space where everything is set up. I mean it could be in the corner of the room because when you want to do something, you know, in the beginning when you're painting, it sometimes takes you some thought to decide whether you want to change something or what needs to be changed and I feel like the longer you paint the more experience you have, those things come to you pretty fast and you want to be able to just do it. You know so if you have a space you can just walk into a doo. You sometimes a majority of my painting I do in the morning but there's other times of the day where I

Joe A. Oakes: just want to walk in here and do something you know to a specific thing you know maybe maybe it's going to take 10 minutes maybe it is going to takes half an hour and that's it And you know, it's kind of like that hit and run kind of way of doing it.

George Irwin: Does it ever just take 10 minutes? Sometimes yeah. Okay cool. I can't I mean I feel like anytime that I've tried to go I'm like I'm just gonna go paint for you know 20 minutes or something then I'm like three hours later, gosh you know it's one in the morning.

Joe A. Oakes: I think part of that is because it, I think probably has to do with where you stop so like I won't stop until I feel like I got everything the way I wanted, you know, I'm happy with what I've done just now and I don't really want to do anything to it because I'm not really going to know what I want to do to it next if I'm not happy with what's already there. Does that make sense?

George Irwin: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it feels like you need to find a stopping point. Yeah, that makes sense and then, and I guess if you're talking about just coming in for 10 minutes, it's like you just had this idea, you're like oh yeah, that rock needs a highlight.

Joe A. Oakes: Done.

George Irwin: Cool. So do you... In creating these magical lands. Do you sketch first or do you just start right in on the paint?

Joe A. Oakes: No, I always do a sketch. Well, mostly, I won't say always but mostly yes. I probably like 85% of the time. I will definitely do a sketch. Sometimes they're just small little sketches and it's just about getting, you know, worked out in your mind what you actually saw or thought you saw and how that's going to translate into this window. It depends if it's a commission or if it is something else then I'll spend a little more time and do a sketch that's like a quarter of the size of the final piece or something that proportion, proportionate to what I'm doing. Maybe a color study, which really doesn't, you know, I kind of do that for the client because I know what I can do already. So sure.

George Irwin: You know? Yeah, do so when you're working on commissions, do you do like, do you provide them like, What's that process like? Like, do you do a few different sketches and then they pick one or they're like,

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: I like this one but I want some mountains in it and then... Lately, I've been pretty lucky. You know

Joe A. Oakes: some people can be very you know specific about what they want. The last couple that I've done the last not the last one but the one before that they had already purchased some of my work before and so they kind of knew what I was about. And they just said we want one of these landscapes where it's big and it's about the mountains and about the sky you know yeah and I was like okay I could do a lot with that. That's cool yeah Yeah, so you know I just did a quick small sketch and I said here's what I'm thinking and they were great with it and then I did a little more in-depth sketch where it was a quarter up, I heard. It was a pretty big pink so I think it was less of a... it may have been like a sixth of the size, you know for them and they liked that and then I did a color study for them

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: and they liked it and we just went for it.

George Irwin: Kept going. Cool. Joe you are sort of like cutting off the top of your head just FYI so I didn't know if you want to raise it up or... there you go. That works too, yeah that's great. Cool so okay so from the sketch then like when you are say you're working on a piece that is not a commission you've done a thumbnail sort of sketch you've got your idea of composition you probably didn't do it color study and then do you just like go up to the canvas and do you like sketch in with pencil or charcoal first or do you

Joe A. Oakes: just kind of go for it. I just do underpainting. I do under painting first, and then I just go for with paint. I do the sketch with paint and but in the beginning I didn't I would do I would use vine charcoal and get it on there and that's how I teach people too because you want to be able to until you're confident in that sketching aspect, you know better to use something that you can remove what you don't like but for me mostly I just paint it on and then I just you know you know I kind of know right away you know there's something I want to change or something I don't like or because there are you are gonna running issues when you're doing these little tiny sketches and then you're you know doing a painting that's four times larger sometimes you wind up with these big empty areas that look, you know, so you have to be able to adjust and

George Irwin: gotcha understand that stuff. Yeah, so do you do you block in color like in work kind of like large blocks of color and the composition and then go like do multiple passes and adding kind of more and more detail all through across the painting? Are you a painter who kind of just goes from one corner to the other? When I when I first started teaching that's how I thought let's paint top to bottom back

Joe A. Oakes: to front. That seemed like a logical way to handle it and somewhere along, I think it was probably like maybe about five years ago? I was doing that in the painting and I said why am I doing this? I've been paying long enough if I want to paint this area I'm going to paint this area first. I don't think what I want to think, but I feel like painting today. But generally, I will kind of block in colors first, but it's really fast and the layers are almost like a semi-transparent layer of color because I'm not... I'm just trying to get it on there pretty fast and what I was thinking color wise. And so So I'm not drying my brush like I should. I'm getting all the previous color out of it so the colors are not as intense and that's okay, I just want to get it on there and see how it feels when I was thinking originally. And then I just kind of keep building.

Joe A. Oakes: And my analogy for that is that it's like a picture that's autofocus and the more we're painting the more it comes into focus.

George Irwin: That's a good analogy. Yeah, really that's cool. Very cool. So what is it? I guess, Joe, I know that you talk about looking at the colors in the natural world and enjoying these landscapes. What do you feel like is it that draws you to experience landscapes in a way like this and then want to share

Joe A. Oakes: that in the form of a painting? I think it's first is like you have to have an appreciation for the earth, for landscapes, for living things. And I think most artists would say

George Irwin: that there's just something about it that you're drawn to it and for everybody it's

Joe A. Oakes: a little bit different. I think it's kind of nice to do landscapes because you know we can focus on specific things if we want, sometimes it's about the trees, sometimes it's above the mountain, sometimes its you know the field. I guess I have this kind of feeling of being out someplace like that and feeling like you're alone but at the same time you're not and just kind of have this looking at the direction that vegetation moves and formations of the mountains and how that draws you right you know out somewhere some direction some way and how that can be so freeing mentally because it might be kind of scary to do that

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: physically, to just wander.

Joe A. Oakes: But I want it to feel like in a painting you could do that, that you could just walk into it. Yeah, feel it and understand it and be in it and not have to worry about okay you know it's hot out I don't have any water where does this path lead? Sure well it's

George Irwin: kind of I mean yeah I think that's one of the things that I love about being out in such like, I don't know, wild or open kind of spaces is it is sort of this feeling of you and the earth. And you know it allows you to connect some with like more a sort of like, I donno primitive part of humanity. Yeah. And then connect with nature in a significant way that we don't think about when we are, you know, driving or something. You're right.

Joe A. Oakes: But yeah so that's the word connected because we are and it just really is I think it's a really great feeling. The other time that I feel that is for some reason like in the past I haven't done very many lately, but I did used to do paintings of fields. Okay, you know, so like lavender or yeah, you Know wine a vineyard or agave whatever it is and for some reason I appreciate that not just because of the directional force of it, but because I feel like that's another way we're connected to the you know these things that we're

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: planning are you know growing and like keeping us alive yeah nourishing us or providing us with I don't know nice knowledge more connected than that and you

George Irwin: know, roaming something. Yeah, like a field of wheat or something and yeah you can just, you know that's kind of like basic connection with the earth as you get. Right. That's cool. I guess on a caveman level I guess right? Well I think that's an important part of ourselves to, you know, to be in touch with I think and understand. Yeah, yeah. Joe, you have a... well your resume is crazy it's you've been doing this for a while and you've got so much experience and awards and recognition that's awesome. And another thing that I noticed when I was looking at your materials and whatnot. Or I guess over the years, I get your newsletter and you have one of the best artist newsletters that I get by the way. Wow thanks. It's really for anybody who's watching or listening, you definitely should sign up for Joe's newsletter. He's got several things in there all the time and it's always a good

George Irwin: read. Yeah, how long have you been doing the newsletter?

Joe A. Oakes: Since 2011. So 10 years or 11 years I guess yeah. But in the beginning it was... I didn't do it every month I did it. I don't know four times a year and then I did every other month and then

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: I just started doing it

Joe A. Oakes: And I think I probably had, I don't know, 25 people.

George Irwin: Well that's fine yeah. I imagine you'd probably have a few more than that now.

Joe A. Oakes: Yeah, we're getting close to like 1500.

George Irwin: Wow, that's awesome. This is something that I'm bringing up because like you have a great example of it. But also I've been talking about with like the artist and like the working artists group that I run, we've been taking about the importance of having a newsletter at least monthly or quarterly just so that you have way to stay connected with your collectors or would-be collectors and gallery people or whomever else and keep your work kind of in front of them and let them know what you're doing because otherwise, you know, they may not, you know maybe you fall out of the algorithm on Instagram or whatever else and I just feel like it's a really important tool for artists to have that's not like overtly like salesy marketing but is a good way to stay kind of like connected to your collectors. Did you notice or has it been impactful for you? Like as a

George Irwin: like in your art business to have that? I don't think- Or is it hard to measure?

Joe A. Oakes: It's hard to me.

George Irwin: I think, but I think that it is an important tool because yeah, you know, everybody's not

Joe A. Oakes: seeing everything you post every day and so it's a way of staying connected with people And I can only go by feedback like yours. I do get a lot of feedback from people that say, I love your newsletter.

George Irwin: I love getting your newsletter, you know?

Joe A. Oakes: They don't respond to it but if I see them or I'm at an event, they'll say, oh, I'll get your newsletter and I love it. It just shows that you're putting something out there that people can understand or connect with you And I think that's really important because in my experience, I'm sure you know better

George Irwin: than I do. But when you're selling art it's not people don't just buy it the first time

Joe A. Oakes: they see it all the time. You know there's a relationship there or there's you know there there's a chance meeting and somebody appreciates what you do, and then they follow or they read your newsletter. And they say I like what he's doing until there is something that you do that they can't live without. Exactly yeah. Then you've made that connection 100% with them and then the sales would follow. So you know it's about just staying true to

George Irwin: who you are and doing what you do, and just letting people know that and feel that. Yeah I think that's uh you do a great job of that and that's um such an important thing to be able to, I mean that's like, that's part of being an artist. It's another, it's kind of another way to show your work you know? You and the whole point not the whole point but a lot of the point of being an artist is some you know to make that connection to share that whatever that was inspirational moment is for you and communicate that to the viewer in a newsletter, you know, it's just another way that you can kind of plant that seed that they might then might, you know. I don't know we've said the word connect a lot but connect. That's cool. Yeah totally. Well all right Joe um you've got you're gonna be showing

Joe A. Oakes: in Slowpoke this year? Yeah. Cool. It's up near it's near Santa Barbara but it's a Western Art Show and it's on our farm or ranch, a horse farm. And it's gonna be a... it should be a good event. I don't know how to describe it

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: But it's a cover.

George Irwin: It's up for a long time, right?

Joe A. Oakes: It's only for two days there's a reception on Friday and sale Saturday and Sunday. It's a covered building and open on three sides so at least I don't have to set up

George Irwin: the tent. Yeah that's good. Not one of my favorite things to do. Right yeah. I mean that the whole yeah setting up and taking down the whole show setup is can be a yeah a beating but well um what else what else you got coming up that uh that we need to know about and

Joe A. Oakes: it actually seems like lately uh I think some things are starting to get slightly back to normal or it seems like summer kind

George Irwin: of crept up on everybody and everybody's looking for events in the fall.

Joe A. Oakes: So I'm going to be doing, oh, I think later this month if you're out, if you were in Southern California, I'll be doing a demo in Ontario. Oh cool.

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: then Ontario, camp or California. Right. Yeah, right. Which is your best airport if you don't want to go to LAX.

Joe A. Oakes: Airport choice. I don't have too much what's going on and I have slowpoke. I I have a couple of demos in September. I'll be in October, I'll be in San Diego doing a workshop.

George Irwin: Excellent. Where else?

Joe A. Oakes: Just kind of filling the calendar now. So things are coming up and I do have them listed usually on my website. there's a workshop or show or whatever they'll be listed on there yeah okay

George Irwin: and that's joeaoakes.com right correct, Oakes with an E at the end yes yes I know it's confusing but no yeah it's not it's not confusing, you just have to be clear about it I guess. All right Joe, well it's been really fun to chat with you and see your space and your work and again I love having you in the New Western Talent exhibition and showing your work and look forward to seeing your next newsletter.

Joe A. Oakes: Yep and I appreciate being here thanks so much.

George Irwin / Joe A. Oakes: and yeah. All right, we'll chat with you next time. All right thanks a lot. All Right. Take care. Thank you bye-bye. Thanks everybody else

George Irwin: for tuning in too. Yes.